Poster against violence in general and spec. not to throw rocks, not to burn garbage in the streets, not to damage property because it is not derech haTorah.
Signed by Rabbis of Eida Charedit:
R' Moshe Sternbuch, R' Meir Brandsdorfer, R' Avrahm Yitzhak Ulman, R' Naftali Frankel, R' Yehoshua Rosenberger (Rav of Rama in RBS B) R' Yaakov Mendel Yarovitch and the GaB"D R' Yitzhak Yuvia Weiss
Please send in other newsworthy items from RBS A and I will be happy to post (at my discretion)
4 comments:
Question is, are these hanging in RBS-B as well?
I think that signs in a neighborhood are fine as long as they are not offensive; and signs saying, "This is a Chareidi neighborhood – don't pass though here unless you dress as we demand," are an aggressive, offensive way to try to discourage people of other persuasions from staying in RBS Alef.
First of all, this is a mixed neighborhood, and people who live in houses near the shopping center have no right to impose their views on others who come there to shop. Also, if someone wishes to express a desire that people visiting this area dress more modestly, there are many ways to phrase that without being offensive and demeaning to others. An additional consideration is that many store owners in the Mercaz Mischari of RBS Alef are not in favor of any signs (including the smaller signs which they were "encouraged" to place at the entrances to their stores), but caved in to "untoward pressure" exercised upon them – many more people would complain about the signs that are being posted if they did not fear retribution by extremist elements.
There is no clear indication that any signs are necessary (and they certainly are not helpful); so it would be better for all concerned if the signs were not there – and it would be best if Chareidi community members would remove such signs on their own initiative, thus showing others that they are actively interested in promoting better relations within RBS. I am certain that everyone wants modest dress (including non-religious people, who may have a different definition of "modest" than we do), and that no one is coming to RBS deliberately dressed in an offensive manner. What is happening, though, is that people who don't share extremist Chareidi values (whether because they hold by Halachah without the Chumras that the extremists would impose, or whether because they do not observe some of the Mitzvot) are being offended by the offensive behavior of sign-posters and stores demanding women to wear skirts before entering. It behooves us to reverse this trend before it causes more Chillul Hashem.
As I see it, these considerations are what differentiate between Chillul Hashem and living in peace with one's neighbors (having a chance for Kiddush Hashem). I would expect all of these offensive things to be opposed especially by the Chareidi members of our community who want to promote good relations in our neighborhood, since these signs purport to speak in their names. If good people remain silent, it leaves the impression that only the loud aggressive members of the community represent the community.
Operations like the cleaning of graffiti from the walls are a step in the right direction, but it must be made clear that the RBS community simply does not approve of hooliganism.
On the flip side of this, the hooligans (who are generally well known in their communities) must be provided with "action" by their communities to replace the hooliganistic "action" which they find in throwing things at others and painting on walls. It is well known that the hooligans attend lots of other functions (like "Tishes", and Hachnasot Sifrei Torah) in order to find "action", their community leaders should channel them into activities that do not injure others and cause Chillul Hashem. This can be done if those community leaders both emphasize how Assur the hooliganistic activities are, as well as providing positive activities for these people (most of whom are not up to learning Torah for anything like a full day). Perhaps the extremist communities need to provide a Simchat Torah-like affair once a month, and maybe even many of these people who are at present besmirching the good name of Bet Shemesh can be "roped into" activities that help the community (building rooms for Talmudei Torah, helping people build Succot, bringing food to the elderly and the sick, helping people get to hospitals when necessary, etc.). Their community leaders who know them should be trying to channel that "nervous energy" which is often let out in unseemly manners, so that it is let out in ways that can make a positive contribution to the community.
There are some examples of people who found a way to channel this type of energy into a life-saving organizations or other community projects instead of causing everyone grief, and I hope that the leaders of communities in Bet Shemesh will also find ways to channel this type of energy in members of their communities into something much more positive.
Catriel Lev, Ramat Bet Shemesh Alef
I think that signs in a neighborhood are fine as long as they are not offensive; and signs saying, "This is a Chareidi neighborhood – don't pass though here unless you dress as we demand," are an aggressive, offensive way to try to discourage people of other persuasions from staying in RBS Alef.
First of all, this is a mixed neighborhood, and people who live in houses near the shopping center have no right to impose their views on others who come there to shop. Also, if someone wishes to express a desire that people visiting this area dress more modestly, there are many ways to phrase that without being offensive and demeaning to others. An additional consideration is that many store owners in the Mercaz Mischari of RBS Alef are not in favor of any signs (including the smaller signs which they were "encouraged" to place at the entrances to their stores), but caved in to "untoward pressure" exercised upon them – many more people would complain about the signs that are being posted if they did not fear retribution by extremist elements.
There is no clear indication that any signs are necessary (and they certainly are not helpful); so it would be better for all concerned if the signs were not there – and it would be best if Chareidi community members would remove such signs on their own initiative, thus showing others that they are actively interested in promoting better relations within RBS. I am certain that everyone wants modest dress (including non-religious people, who may have a different definition of "modest" than we do), and that no one is coming to RBS deliberately dressed in an offensive manner. What is happening, though, is that people who don't share extremist Chareidi values (whether because they hold by Halachah without the Chumras that the extremists would impose, or whether because they do not observe some of the Mitzvot) are being offended by the offensive behavior of sign-posters and stores demanding women to wear skirts before entering. It behooves us to reverse this trend before it causes more Chillul Hashem.
As I see it, these considerations are what differentiate between Chillul Hashem and living in peace with one's neighbors (having a chance for Kiddush Hashem). I would expect all of these offensive things to be opposed especially by the Chareidi members of our community who want to promote good relations in our neighborhood, since these signs purport to speak in their names. If good people remain silent, it leaves the impression that only the loud aggressive members of the community represent the community.
Operations like the cleaning of graffiti from the walls are a step in the right direction, but it must be made clear that the RBS community simply does not approve of hooliganism.
On the flip side of this, the hooligans (who are generally well known in their communities) must be provided with "action" by their communities to replace the hooliganistic "action" which they find in throwing things at others and painting on walls. It is well known that the hooligans attend lots of other functions (like "Tishes", and Hachnasot Sifrei Torah) in order to find "action", their community leaders should channel them into activities that do not injure others and cause Chillul Hashem. This can be done if those community leaders both emphasize how Assur the hooliganistic activities are, as well as providing positive activities for these people (most of whom are not up to learning Torah for anything like a full day). Perhaps the extremist communities need to provide a Simchat Torah-like affair once a month, and maybe even many of these people who are at present besmirching the good name of Bet Shemesh can be "roped into" activities that help the community (building rooms for Talmudei Torah, helping people build Succot, bringing food to the elderly and the sick, helping people get to hospitals when necessary, etc.). Their community leaders who know them should be trying to channel that "nervous energy" which is often let out in unseemly manners, so that it is let out in ways that can make a positive contribution to the community.
There are some examples of people who found a way to channel this type of energy into a life-saving organizations or other community projects instead of causing everyone grief, and I hope that the leaders of communities in Bet Shemesh will also find ways to channel this type of energy in members of their communities into something much more positive.
DON'T BE FRIGHTENED! THIS IS A LONG Posting, but ITS MAIN POINT IS SUMMARIZED in the following two paragraphs:
I am starting an initiative to rid our neighborhood of its intolerance and violence problems; I call it the Vaad LeHatzneah Lechet im Elokecha (הועד להצנע לכת עם אלקיך), based upon the verse in Michah (6:8) – but the name is much less important than the goal! I am not naïve; the problems may never be totally eradicated, but if we make that our goal, we should be able to reach something like 90-99% success over the course of the years that this initiative will have to operate! We need the participation of many, many people from each of the communities which comprise Ramat Bet Shemesh – so this initiative is for all of you: Dati, Chareidi, Masorati and Chiloni!
I urge everyone else who has the courage and the determination to work with me to build a coherent non-violent solution to contact me by Email (clev@actcom.com) so that we can set up a LONG list of MANY people who will be willing to stand up and be counted to stop the Chillul Hahshem.
Some DETAILS of This Initiative:
First of all, this type of initiative will clearly need years to turn back the unhealthy tide that has caused so much Chillul Hashem and grief to residents of our city! I am looking for other like-minded people from Bet Shemesh FROM ALL COMMUNITIES – we can only do this with serious public Chareidi community participation as well as participation of the other communities in our fair city! I am NOT looking for people who want REVENGE or the like! We need people with the courage and the determination to work to build a coherent non-violent solution – and non-violent solutions almost always take more time to effect than violent ones!
I ask for people to have courage and determination because people have already been threatened with regard to these issues, and we can expect that there will be further threats (and perhaps physical attacks) as this initiative progresses. HOWEVER, I am certain that it behooves us to develop the courage and determination to take action, even if it entails some risk, so that we have a chance to "turn the tide" and not just leave our neighborhood open to more and more violence and intolerance!
We must pursue positive steps with calculated plans to make EVERYONE feel as welcome as possible in our community; and this means working out practical "programs" that will halt violence (or at least reduce it in the utmost) and will "force" violent types to find outlets for their nervous energy in activities that neither injure nor offend others. So this requires all of us to "step back" from our anger at the despicable actions which have occurred, and realize that those who have been performing these actions are also our fellow Jews, and that there are ways to direct them to non-offensive behavior. That they may deserve to be punished is beside the point – WHAT WE NEED IS A TRULY PLEASANT COMMUNITY ATMOSPHERE, so we also have to be ready to deal with the needs of the people who have been behaving offensively!
The most elementary part of a solution is having reasonable people from all communities unite for the common goal of eliminating violence as a way to deal with community issues. The vast majority of people from all communities are disgusted with the violence by "hooligans" that is besmirching the name of our city (at least, I believe that the vast majority thinks this way, and I sincerely hope that I am not being naïve in this belief), but this "silent majority" opinion has not yet coalesced into a form that can be used for positive action.
There are three basic points on which we must take positive action:
1. Getting everyone who disapproves of violence to refrain from any actions which might make the hooligans who commit violent acts appear to be celebrities. They have already become celebrities to a certain extent, and we must work on removing this celebrity status. This, of course, includes approaching Rabbis who have not yet opposed the violence and to show them how opposing the violence will improve the community (in addition to being required Halachically, as an EIDAH CHAREIDIT wall poster requiring a cessation of the violence emphasizes – see http://rbsanews.blogspot.com/2007/07/kol-koreh-against-violence.html, which was publicized on this blog spot), and how they can utilize the energies of these hooligans for positive activities (see point #3).
2. Getting the hooligans to cease violence. This is, of course, extremely difficult; but enough strong community social pressure can produce the desired result! This will probably take years of repeated step-by-step social action: first, making community leaders truly aware that the vast majority oppose this hooliganism; second, convincing them that they can make a difference if they continually speak out against the violence (and showing the positivist attitude that even if it does not make an immediate impact the first time, it can have a cumulative effect if it is consistently followed up), third getting through to the hooligans themselves (most, or all, of whom are known in their communities).
3. Rehabilitating the hooligans (most, or all, of whom are known to participate in other activities [like "Tishes", and Hachnasot Sifrei Torah] in order to find "action"): This means having their communities develop programs which can channel the "nervous energy" which these hooligans put into violence, and use it for positive actions (there are some well known examples of this occurring). Perhaps the extremist communities need to provide a Simchat Torah-like affair once a month, and maybe even many of these people who are at present besmirching the good name of Bet Shemesh can be "roped into" activities that help the community (building rooms for Talmudei Torah, helping people build Succot, bringing food to the elderly and the sick, helping people get to hospitals when necessary, etc.). Their community leaders who know them should be trying to channel that "nervous energy" which is often let out in unseemly manners, so that it is let out in ways that can make a positive contribution to the community.
I think that the community leaders who are not at present expressing themselves will NOT do what I suggest here unless there is serious social pressure, and sincere desire to change things among the "silent majority of peaceful Chareidim" (despite the almost certain knowledge that it will engender threats against them) along with the members of the other communities; and I hope that these step-by-step plans can turn around the situation eventually. There do not appear to be any easy solutions, but I have just outlined the skeleton of a coherent non-violent solution.
However, I am not naive – it will probably get worse before it gets better! This why I am appealing to reasonable people from all communities to Email me and let us begin serious POSITIVE action, and we can only do this with serious public Chareidi participation! I have spoken to some Chareidi Rabbis, and will speak to more, but they all seem to agree with me that the solution can only come from the grassroots average people having the courage to confront the situation and to make it clear that they will not tolerate violence and demand that all disagreements (whether they be ideological, Halachic or otherwise) be voiced without violence and with kavod for the other people involved.
Let us attempt to "turn back the tide" of violence and to perform a true Kiddush Hashem before it is too late!
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