RBS A Graffiti cleaned up by Haredim who careRamat Bet Shemesh has been getting much negative publicity lately as some hooligans masquerading as Torah adherents use violence and vandalism to get across messages of anger and intolerance.
Although the media often fails to distinguish there are two separate neighborhood in RBS, Alef & Beit and while RBSB is mostly Charedi Alef is an eclectic mix.
Unfortunately although there are many righteous pious and G-d fearing Torah Jews in RBSB, it is also home to a few hotheads who make everyone's lives miserable. Although I agree with them that they should be allowed to hang signs in Bet and Alef the violence and vandalism that erupted as a result of the signs unwarranted removal was wrong and gives us a very negative picture.
Yesterday several Charedi Avreichim who care about the defacing of RBSA by vandals took to the streets and brushed and cleaned the offensive graffiti to send a clear message:
"We are Torah Jews, we are the Charedi residents of RBS A and we want a clean neighborhood free from vandalism"
Here are some photos:
30 comments:
kol hakavod!
Kol HaKavod! What a Kiddush Hashem!
This should be sent in to the Jerusalem Post.
Yasher koach! I am dati and live in Bet Shemesh. I had thought that RBS B was filled with hot-headed, ignorant people (what else could I think when the bus that my dati daughter goes to school on was stoned and attacked by frum Jews?). This is the first indication that the men in RBS B are taking seriously the Torah and standing up for it in a way that is a Kiddush Hashem, instead of a chilul Hashem. This is the way you makarve other Jews. I finally don't just *hear* there are serious Torah Jews in RBS B... I'm starting to believe it! Actions speak louder than words! Yasher koach and may your efforts be blessed with success by Hashem!
sorry to rain on your parade but these people are from RBS A not B.
I actually am surprised that there are some chareidim that care about the place they live in!!!!! I don't think they should be "KOL HAKAVODED" and all because it's their own place and whatever they choose to do to it is their own problem.
But compared to how they have been acting with their cottage cheese and rocks, eggs whatever the object may be, one thing i know forsure is that they have worked a bit on improving and we all hope for more
Kol Hakavod to R' Zwecker as well, for publicizing this!
-Mike (ex-neighbor of R' Zwecker when I used to live on the other side of RBS)
"Kol HaKavod" is certainly due, even if only for being reasonable, since it's very easy for non-kanayim to go along with the crowd or to be afraid to stand up against kanayim. The phoenix earned immortality just for saying "no" to Eve's offer of the fruit. Anyone who stands against kanayim deserves the same credit.
I'm a RBSA resident, I do wear jeans, I don't cover my hear, I pay arnona as you do and I don't have the wright to buy milk at the nearest supermarket?
Kol Hakavod for those who cleaned up the graffittis, the next step should be "no signs".
Sarah
(by the way, the graffittis came back an hour after they were cleaned up)
Hip hip hurray! Yes, I am glad that some men in black hats cleaned up the mess.... they are heroes.
Question: would this have been posted if the men cleaning up were non religious or men wearing kippah srugah?
While it is nice to see some positive actions by haredi men (after weeks of hillul hashem going unchecked by their neighbours in rbs bet)I really don't think that it is newsworthy that some people cleaned thuggish graffiti off their buildings - isn't that what you or I or any decent person would do if their buildngs were vandalized??? So "Kol hacavod" for acting like a mench!! shame it is so rare that it becomes newswothy!!
Hello everyone I had to delete two offensive slanderous / lashon hara comments please comment, please express yourself dont slander others.
Thanks
Tal
Just saw a new kol koreh from the Eida Chareidis against all demonstrations that use any physical actions, explicitly including violence, stone throwing, and setting fire to trash cans.
www.harrypottertorah.com/personal/kol_koreh_2007_07_20.jpg
Who cares if it was RBS Aleph and not Bet ... to a lot of people "chareidim" are one entity and unfortunately they have a bad reputation. This is something that's commendable.
Hello everyone I had to delete two offensive slanderous / lashon hara comments please comment, please express yourself dont slander others.
Excuse me???!!! Why is it slander or lashon hora to say that someone isn't charedi???
After reading the slew of comments and sensing the general tone let me throw in my two cents -
Penny #1) Rav Zwecker - Yasher Koach !! What is seen from the 'outside' as a homogenous haredi mass is really many different segments of society, who for reasons of fashion or religious adherence, wear similar clothing. Why tar everyone with the same brush ?
Penny #2)sour grapes to anonymous poster - if you can't make a point without insulting someone - maybe you should stick to the classics - "hymie", "Jewboy" ... if just to relieve your frustration.
R' Zwecker,
As you've already seen, of course, any post of this sort attracts no shortage of anonymous cowards (as per the default name on Slashdot) who are not willing to identify behind their (generally hateful) rhetoric to engage in some form of productive discussion.
I would humbly recommend setting some form of policy now; either a technological one (such as "no anonymous comments") or at least a social (/halachic) regarding what type of comments / discussions are accepted.
There are, already, several blogs that regularly address RBS related issues. Among the serious ones, Rafi G and Harry Maryles come to mind as honest and accurate. There are also a few others, who do not merit mention, that regularly reproduce Haaretz et al news reports to show what a horrible community we have. If you're willing to accept honest questions (of which there are relatively few among those who will come out to post here), and have the patience to deal with those who's tone you've already seen, perhaps this could be a genuinely positive contribution to the general "moshav leitzim" atmosphere of the blogosphere.
Good Shabbos.
Shkoyach on taking the time and effort to clean up the area.
I am happy TO SEE THIS EFFORT BECAUSE I WAS THINKING OF DOING IT ON SUNDAY, BUT THEY BEAT ME TO IT
SIGNS DON'T BOTHER ME AND I THINK THE POLICE DID MORE DAMAGE BY TAKING THEM DOWN
GRAFFITI REMINDS ME OF OVERTOWN IN FLA OR HARLEM IN NY AND IT MAKES OUR CITY LOOK LIKE A SLUM
THEY DO NOT MEKAREV PEOPLE W/THEIR ATTITUDE
I WOULD LIKE TO ADD ONE NOTE
WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT FORCING WOMEN WHO ARE NOT DRESSED 'PROPERLY' ACCORDING TO THE HAREDIM TO PUT ON SKIRTS AND/OR BLOUSES IN THE SHEFA SHUK AND ALEPH MKTS??? IS NOT A SUPERMARKET FOR THE PUBLIC?
HOW CAN THEY LEGALLY ENFORCE THIS??
i MET A WOMAN YESTERDAY WHO DOES NOT BUY AT THOSE MKTS AND IS LOOKING TO MOVE ELSEWHERE BECAUSE OF THIS MATZAV CAN WE AFFORD TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN???
I WOULD LIKE TO STOP THE CRAZINESS AND FOCUS ON THE GOOD OF BS AND RBS THANKS SHABBAT SHALOM
Thanks Mike I have deleted that offensive comment, just for the record all comments of an offensive and or slanderous nature will be deleted, whether they are aimed at any member of the community, criticism is welcome be it pos or neg, please keep tones friendly and worthy of discussion
This news blog is meant for news not politics and slaner and mud slinging, hopefully as more pos and happy/cheerful news comes up less inflammatory comments will be here
But I will happily host news from any part of the greater RBSA community whatever flavor it is
Gut Voch and Shavua Tov
We will continue Anonymous postings for now as sometimes people have a legitmate reason that they wish to remain Anonymous.
I am an orthodox Jew with covered hair and long skirt. I will NOT buy in any shop that has signs telling people how to dress. Aren't we trying to bring the mashiah?? The only way to help people to hozer betshuvah is by personal example - not by exclusion. The signs have nothing to do with tzniut - they are about power. The behaviour of the "tzniut brigade " is a hillul Hashem which is distancing Jews from our religion
Signs were posted in the local Chareidi shuls before shabbos that all of the grafitti will be removed after Tisha B'av with the backing of R' Goldstien. As one of the peole involved in the grafitti removal, I can say that the "silent majority" of chareidi residents of the Kishon Sorek area were bothered by the grafitti being up, and just felt powerless to do anything about it. "All it takes for evil to succeed is for god people to stand aside", or something like tht anyway.
2nd to last anonymous - if that is really your policy, you must not go shopping locally very much as nearly all the stores in the merkaz area have those signs posted. Where do you shop?
You had to know that this sensitive issue would attract emotional comments. I'm pretty sure that is why the posting went up. The more comments you get here the more likely you are to get a regular reader-base.
It's your blog so delete whatever comments you want but keeping comments by Mike Miller and deleting others only proves that this is not strictly a news blog as you claim.... it's all politics, politics, and more ugly politics.
Thanks for your comment I published these news stories to show and illustrate that there are many flavors of people out there and that no one should judge a whole group
I will publish criticisms as long as their tone is not slanderous, yes everyone can disagree but name calling and ridiculing has no place on this blog, it is comments of that nature that were deleted, readers are encouraged to submit or resubmit and change the tone
Thanks
T
nearly all the stores in the merkaz area have those signs posted.
I think the bagel store doesn't. ;)
>Anonymous said...
>I am an orthodox Jew with covered >hair and long skirt etc.
In 1992 Pop Singer Jason Donovan was refused entry into Harrods of London because he wore ripped jeans. Will you refuse to shop in Harrods too?
Harrods was not doing it out of a desire to exert power. Nor was it offending large swathes of the population. But the main point is this - it's not as though the stores in RBS want to put up these signs! They are being threatened into puttin g them up!
While this was ignored in this weeks "Chadash" (which, of course, is assur min haTorah ;)), Temurah had a nice article (with more pictures).
Hopefully the new graffiti will also be removed, until these idiots learn to go somewhere else.
DON'T BE FRIGHTENED! THIS IS A LONG Posting, but ITS MAIN POINT IS SUMMARIZED in the following two paragraphs:
I am starting an initiative to rid our neighborhood of its intolerance and violence problems; I call it the Vaad LeHatzneah Lechet im Elokecha (הועד להצנע לכת עם אלקיך), based upon the verse in Michah (6:8) – but the name is much less important than the goal! I am not naïve; the problems may never be totally eradicated, but if we make that our goal, we should be able to reach something like 90-99% success over the course of the years that this initiative will have to operate! We need the participation of many, many people from each of the communities which comprise Ramat Bet Shemesh – so this initiative is for all of you: Dati, Chareidi, Masorati and Chiloni!
I urge everyone else who has the courage and the determination to work with me to build a coherent non-violent solution to contact me by Email (clev@actcom.com) so that we can set up a LONG list of MANY people who will be willing to stand up and be counted to stop the Chillul Hahshem.
Some DETAILS of This Initiative:
First of all, this type of initiative will clearly need years to turn back the unhealthy tide that has caused so much Chillul Hashem and grief to residents of our city! I am looking for other like-minded people from Bet Shemesh FROM ALL COMMUNITIES – we can only do this with serious public Chareidi community participation as well as participation of the other communities in our fair city! I am NOT looking for people who want REVENGE or the like! We need people with the courage and the determination to work to build a coherent non-violent solution – and non-violent solutions almost always take more time to effect than violent ones!
I ask for people to have courage and determination because people have already been threatened with regard to these issues, and we can expect that there will be further threats (and perhaps physical attacks) as this initiative progresses. HOWEVER, I am certain that it behooves us to develop the courage and determination to take action, even if it entails some risk, so that we have a chance to "turn the tide" and not just leave our neighborhood open to more and more violence and intolerance!
We must pursue positive steps with calculated plans to make EVERYONE feel as welcome as possible in our community; and this means working out practical "programs" that will halt violence (or at least reduce it in the utmost) and will "force" violent types to find outlets for their nervous energy in activities that neither injure nor offend others. So this requires all of us to "step back" from our anger at the despicable actions which have occurred, and realize that those who have been performing these actions are also our fellow Jews, and that there are ways to direct them to non-offensive behavior. That they may deserve to be punished is beside the point – WHAT WE NEED IS A TRULY PLEASANT COMMUNITY ATMOSPHERE, so we also have to be ready to deal with the needs of the people who have been behaving offensively!
The most elementary part of a solution is having reasonable people from all communities unite for the common goal of eliminating violence as a way to deal with community issues. The vast majority of people from all communities are disgusted with the violence by "hooligans" that is besmirching the name of our city (at least, I believe that the vast majority thinks this way, and I sincerely hope that I am not being naïve in this belief), but this "silent majority" opinion has not yet coalesced into a form that can be used for positive action.
There are three basic points on which we must take positive action:
1. Getting everyone who disapproves of violence to refrain from any actions which might make the hooligans who commit violent acts appear to be celebrities. They have already become celebrities to a certain extent, and we must work on removing this celebrity status. This, of course, includes approaching Rabbis who have not yet opposed the violence and to show them how opposing the violence will improve the community (in addition to being required Halachically, as an EIDAH CHAREIDIT wall poster requiring a cessation of the violence emphasizes – see http://rbsanews.blogspot.com/2007/07/kol-koreh-against-violence.html, which was publicized on this blog spot), and how they can utilize the energies of these hooligans for positive activities (see point #3).
2. Getting the hooligans to cease violence. This is, of course, extremely difficult; but enough strong community social pressure can produce the desired result! This will probably take years of repeated step-by-step social action: first, making community leaders truly aware that the vast majority oppose this hooliganism; second, convincing them that they can make a difference if they continually speak out against the violence (and showing the positivist attitude that even if it does not make an immediate impact the first time, it can have a cumulative effect if it is consistently followed up), third getting through to the hooligans themselves (most, or all, of whom are known in their communities).
3. Rehabilitating the hooligans (most, or all, of whom are known to participate in other activities [like "Tishes", and Hachnasot Sifrei Torah] in order to find "action"): This means having their communities develop programs which can channel the "nervous energy" which these hooligans put into violence, and use it for positive actions (there are some well known examples of this occurring). Perhaps the extremist communities need to provide a Simchat Torah-like affair once a month, and maybe even many of these people who are at present besmirching the good name of Bet Shemesh can be "roped into" activities that help the community (building rooms for Talmudei Torah, helping people build Succot, bringing food to the elderly and the sick, helping people get to hospitals when necessary, etc.). Their community leaders who know them should be trying to channel that "nervous energy" which is often let out in unseemly manners, so that it is let out in ways that can make a positive contribution to the community.
I think that the community leaders who are not at present expressing themselves will NOT do what I suggest here unless there is serious social pressure, and sincere desire to change things among the "silent majority of peaceful Chareidim" (despite the almost certain knowledge that it will engender threats against them) along with the members of the other communities; and I hope that these step-by-step plans can turn around the situation eventually. There do not appear to be any easy solutions, but I have just outlined the skeleton of a coherent non-violent solution.
However, I am not naive – it will probably get worse before it gets better! This why I am appealing to reasonable people from all communities to Email me and let us begin serious POSITIVE action, and we can only do this with serious public Chareidi participation! I have spoken to some Chareidi Rabbis, and will speak to more, but they all seem to agree with me that the solution can only come from the grassroots average people having the courage to confront the situation and to make it clear that they will not tolerate violence and demand that all disagreements (whether they be ideological, Halachic or otherwise) be voiced without violence and with kavod for the other people involved.
Let us attempt to "turn back the tide" of violence and to perform a true Kiddush Hashem before it is too late!
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